These three are weird. The African faith is followed by the peoples of sub-Saharan Africa. The version without a religious head and Great Holy War becomes a heresy and is called the "Old" version of the religion. ( But Imperial Succession is nearly same as heir designation so you may want to pick the Religious tax doctrine to get tons of cash. So I'm not a very big fan of Autonomous. Now that you have no fast way to expand through pagan lands, you may wish to convert to a culture that allows use of the Tribal Invasion CB, so you can quickly expand through infidel lands instead. All defensive pagans have access to Ancestor Worship & Choose Patron deity decision. Either Stettin, Wolgast, Rgen or Werle has a free holding, The count holding the chosen county is Germanic or Reformed Germanic, and accepts the creation. Ancestor Veneration A for Power, A for Fun, Bloodthirsty Gods B- For Power, A for Fun, Stability/Children of Perun (Slavic)/Survivor of Ukko (Suomenusko). Rulers can spend 500 Prestige and 150 Piety to increase courtier or own attributes. The last playable Slavic ruler is Chief Testislaw of Dyrmin. Well. All rights reserved. Intermarry Buddhist, Zoroastrian group. I think the only time I mention something similar is switching to Germanic to use Prepared Invasion in the context of Daring. Stability removes short reign penalty, which was not a problem for me ever. Pagan Religion Reformation Advice. Easily the best for power gaming, as you can directly target Great Holy Wars, and don't . It is important to quickly convert vassals who still follow the old faith due to the large opinion penalty. Pagan religions may gain a religious head and a Great Holy War (Crusade CB) if they reform. Depends on what you want. Lose piety when at war against faithful.Penalty to Spymaster steal technology. Also without Proselytizing my own vassals never bothered to spread their own religion. With tribal mechanics, pagans cannot raise Tribal Organization very high without having severe relations penalty for tribal Unreformed Pagan vassals (-30 opinion with Absolute). The selection of Leadership style determines the type of religious head. The resulting empty holding slots further strengthens the horde. Due to the Germanic faith's long and combative relationship with Catholic western Europe, there are a number of unique events between them. Seabound is just useless without Daring and picking these two doctrines is silly (unless we are not getting bored with constant raiding on our foes). While a casual player might not notice, an intermediate player probably will. In fact I was really surprised they didn't do anything with Manichaeanism in HL. The Short Reign relations modifier is three times more severe for pagans. it isnt meant to be celtic pagan or any pagan religion in particular. Interfaith marriage is unavailable. Disallow avuncular marriage and cousin marriage. And isn't Civilized like a dream? It also supports early-game dominance - you are next-to-none as a Germanic ruler in 867. For hellenic rome, warmongering, unrelenting, civilized and im not sure about the last one since the pontifex maximus was not very strong in his authority, having powers like fixing the calendar. Full status of woman law is enforced. Eldership succession law is allowed. I'm still mad how badly Shia got shafted over the development of the game. Haruspicy and Astrology effects. They keep access to county conquests and raids. Aztec Pyramid construction. Sacrificing prisoners unlocks special traits, actions, and a bloodline that grants Prestige for sacrifices as well. Also unrelenting is heavily underrated. Jainism without doubt. Because raiding counts as war, and they have county conquest casus belli that require no reason for war, however, few rulers need find themselves short on wars for long. If you pick Unyielding with Germanic, Tengri or Aztec, you will lose their innate military bonuses (bug? which is available immediately to Tribal realms with a reformed pagan religion). I agree, meliorism should have notification. The reformed Pagan religions are usually pretty nice. They must switch to elective gavelkind if they wish to declare Subjugation or Tribal Invasion wars. Rulers lose prestige when at peace for too long. AI rulers will only convert same-group provinces. The homeland attrition penalty does apply to reformed pagans of another faith, but the "old faith" heresies have no such protection against the reformed churches of their specific branch of paganism. Women can take up to 3 consorts. It is really painful to expand with CBs at our disposal as Peaceful religion. If you have tribal government, it is recommended to choose either Agnatic Clans or Enatic Clans doctrine to avoid Gavelkind succession law. being able to roleplay as discount Vikings as any pagan religion can be fun, and using rivers is always an interesting mechanic. Ironically, the low technology is a greater issue after the adoption of feudalism, as feudal realms require higher tech for the construction of buildings. Disagree. As I try to have everyone with duchy and above titles be of my dynasty I have one save where I have 1000+ opinion just from veneration. If the last two holy sites are difficult to reach, the best way to obtain the necessary moral authority is through county conquests and raids. Yea i know all that, and i never said i liked it. AI looter prefer coastal counties. Thats all for now! D. Nature: If you picked peaceful nature, I suggest you pick Autonomous leadership(since Peaceful doctrine anyway disables GHW). Women can take up to 3 consorts. "Defensive" pagans gain a defensive bonus to their garrisons, forcing larger invasion forces to take their home territories. A religion's nature determines its attitude toward warfare and religious conversion. CK2 Pagan Reformation - Natures The first thing you will choose is one Nature. With Holy Fury, each pagan faith (except Aztecs) has an associated Warrior Lodge, a society focused on combat. Unyielding also reduces AI aggressiveness, which can be a negative if you want your AI vassals to attack/invade your enemies for you. It says we can spend piety to improve curtier abilities but we can do it once per 5 years and can improve stat for one point. Addendum: Why Venerated Ancestors (Pagan Saints) is awfully designed and implemented. Hellenic Paganism : A. Similar story with Ancestor Veneration, but with more hassle of sucking up to the old dudes, the one disadvantage of Ancestor Veneration is that we must pick either Hierocratic or Autocephalous leadership (I think). Stuff that sounds good at first sometimes turns out to be not so great. ), creating negative synergy (though you can combine Unyielding with Animistic but dont cause Animistic is awful). Women can take up to 3 consorts. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. It has synergy with enatic/agnatic or meritocracy, after 9 successful boosts for close family relative we get a bloodline. Reforming a pagan faith establishes a formal religious hierarchy and scripture - adapting elements of the Abrahamic faiths in order to more effectively oppose them. The "too short ruler" penalty can be brutal if You don't have a majesty level high enough. 2019, Foreign missionaries become more effective, venerate a given ancestor, in a process similar to sainthood, https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/index.php?title=Pagans&oldid=43605, Play Levy size & attack bonus from unreformed Tengri faith will be lost. Diviner read signs before a war to try to improve troop morale. I'd suggest backing up a copy of your save game at the point where you can reform the religion and then trying a few combinations. Ancestor worship, animism and totemistic shamanism dominate, but there are also various pantheons of gods. The best Doctrines by far are the two "Clans" option with the slight edge to Enatic. Reformed religions gain access to holy wars, usable on any target of a different faith (including other pagans). Pagans may fight back in the name of the old gods, and even seek to eliminate the monotheists from Europe. Right now before I will be able to even convert rest of my provinces, they already do it.*. Nature: Unyielding sounds good on paper, but if you plan on having a large realm I'm not sure it's great because it takes a long time for counties to change to your religion. Additionally, Unyielding is a bit of a jack of all trades if you want to blob, Proselyting is better for converting provinces. Historically, the pagan faiths were gradually supplanted by Christianity, Islam, Dharmic religions, and Eastern religions, but this does not necessarily happen in the game. Wait. Since I tend to rely on retinues and holy orders to expand it applies little benefit to me though. You can take Temporal with AV. Certain pagans have access to additional succession laws. * Your mileage may vary. It has its downsides because it makes AI more aggressive and incompetent AI can tank our MA very hard. For example, players who seek to reduce internal conflicts in their country, but still want to expand their boundaries, could use the following culture/religion/doctrine combination: Altaic culture, Tengri, Peaceful, Stability, Equality, Autonomous. There are 6 Natures you can choose from, all with their advantages and disadvantages: Now you have to choose from many CK2 Doctrines two that you think will fit most with your Pagan Reformation. Partially redundant with Children of Perun doctrine. No female temple holders. The reason I don't like to pick it is that the bonuses apply to my vassals and makes them much stronger. Holy Sites: Incompatible with Harmonious, Agnatic Clans and Enatic Clans doctrines. Pagan non-nomads normally requires the Old Gods or Holy Fury DLC to be playable. I was new to HF just like everyone else and I had no idea what the end result would be. There's a mod that fixes this. For the reference https://ck2.paradoxwikis.com/Pagans#Reformation, Nature: Two tiers here. It's a bit of a challenge but shouldn't be too much for any player with a bit of experience. Religious Control Mandate law is unavailable. Penalty to moral authority (-15%) and to mission. )Best religion for gold income as liege : sunni Due to the additional tax from holdings in counties without Muslim religion. Youre all but guaranteed the successor you want, and unlike Open succession you dont have to worry about your AI heir doing stupid things when you land them. The Fun element of Proselytizing is that its the only nature that actively allows you to actively convert (outside of mass conversion events) foreign leaders to your religion. Rulers with Zunist holy sites in their demesne may also secretly convert to the faith. Inbreeding can be offset with concubines/polygamy. Crusader Kings II. Ship maintenance reduced to 10%. Stability is useless without Eldership law. Moral Authority edit Main article: Moral authority If there is levy size & attack bonus from unreformed religion, it is lost. Havent seen many posts about reforming the Bon religion. As such, it is best used when the player is ready for their nation to "mature" from aggressive expansion against small targets to needing to maintain an empire. Also offsets short reign. 867 enatic bloodline,African religion for consorts, cosmopolitan for husbands, syncretic to remove penalties, divine marriage so you can seduce and cosort acquire bloodlines, autonomous for a floating Dynasty opinion, fertility, or another +10 religion modifier. All Offensive pagans also gain a +30% bonus to their levy sizes, making up for likely lower technology and smaller fort holdings. Note that Germanic pagans have as a holy site the county of Braunschweig, and taking that county will trigger the Catholic crusades (as well as the formation of every Catholic Holy Order but the Knights Templar) at the time that you take Braunschweig, so long as the year is 900 and the province is Christian. Eldership succession law is allowed. If there is levy size & attack bonus from unreformed religion or morale bonus from Animistic doctrine in the first doctrine slot, it is lost. As I said, civilized isnt good for Roman emperor as he is locked into imperial elective, and lets be honest, if we are reforming hellenic religion then we are 99% roman emperor, Problem, realize that I'm a couple months late, but stability is a doctrine, not a nature, sorry, that's bugging me, "I changed my mind about divine marriage doctrine, it actually allows us to breed new bloodlines fairly easy into our dynasty.". Rulers lose prestige when at peace for too long. I like Romuva and Suomensusko the best but I don't have much experience with Bon but I think I'll try them soon. It was the first game where I gave any titles to my family. Autonomous leadership bonus for an attribute depends on original pagan religion. Crusader Kings is a historical grand strategy / RPG video game series for PC, Mac, Linux, PlayStation 5 & Xbox Series X|S developed & published by Paradox Interactive. Also has access to the decadence mechanic which can also increase demesne income with tribal or iqta governments. B. Doctrine 1: Polygamy: To make best use of Imperial Succession, having loads of wives is good as you can pick the best heir one of them pops out. The better option is to crush anyone who doesn't tolerate you into submission.". I like this feature but it's tough to convert others outside your realm. Each one can only occur at a certain, and different, time each year. When I ran a Muslim realm with a capital in Marrekech, and put 1 castle, 1 city, and 5 mosques there, I felt like I was the most powerful guy in the world. Equality allows the player to not only land females, but also to get even higher scores since female dynasts could have consorts, who as concubines provides prestige. To debate theology, go elsewhere. I rank Ancestor Veneration as tier 1 because of the eldership succesion it provides, sainthood is just nice bonus for it. You hardly get Short year penalty with Imperial succession. Characters are assigned Zodiac traits on birth and by decision. The first thing you will choose is one Nature. Another approach is to try new mechanics (to pick Haruspicy, Animism, Veneration) or to add useful abilities to existing faiths (e.g. Levy size bonus from unreformed Aztec faith will be lost. All other ideologies are trash. More posts you may like r/CrusaderKings Join 3 days ago CK2 6.4K 103 r/CrusaderKings 5 days ago Others have concvinced me that Hellenic is the best overall. Heir Designation is allowed (if at least one of Rajas of India or Jade Dragon is enabled). (Hellenic religion lacks concubines), You can't declare holy wars if You have the peaceful doctrine. I used autonomous most often which gives some flat bonuses. But later, feudal realms grow their income more quickly, while raiding becomes less feasible as targets consolidate. They can easily convert provinces by pillaging every holding in a province. By accepting all cookies, you agree to our use of cookies to deliver and maintain our services and site, improve the quality of Reddit, personalize Reddit content and advertising, and measure the effectiveness of advertising. Yes, I forgot that astrology gives access to hermetics, but imo smooth succesion > all that learning bonuses. choosing Polygamy for Hellenism, which has no access to concubinage or choosing the Children of Perun doctrine to make use of major Russian rivers to transport armies). Generic Tengri paganism allows for more levies. Holy sites: Djimi, Draa, Gao, Kano and Wagadu. Levy size & attack bonus from unreformed Tengri faith will be lost. No Revolt Risk for different religion in county. on Paradox technology, Legal Monasticism is definitely top tier, as it allows you to make any succession law work the way you want, not to mention the flat learning boost. With the exception of the reformed Germanic religion, the faith will also immediately gain a holy order. This allows defensive pagans to defeat enemy armies twice their size with ease. AI rulers only try to convert provinces if zealous. + Bloodthirsty Gods, Seabound, Unrelenting. Enatic clans is still good because vassal duchies wont merge every generation but they're infinitely worse than agnatic clans. (Such as reconquering Slavic lands as a Slav from Christians.) This is in addition to the pagan homeland attrition penalty, which forces the large numbers of troops needed to invade a defensive pagan home territory to face severe attrition for the duration of any siege. Lastly, pagans may, by decision, convert to the religion of a spouse or concubine of a different faith. You also have to remember the example you've given is a really fringe situation exploiting several mechanics. That deserves recognition. Tengri and Aztec pagans do not have defensive attrition (though Tengri invaders can ignore it). Ancestor Worship decision available. This is just a bonus I found by accident. Some other day I read that this isn't a bug and it's working as intendent IMO Enatic is much, much better than Agnatic, because Agnatic prevents you from matri marrying, which means any chance to get a non-crafted bloodline is over, and because there are immensely more targets for matriarchal deposition than there is for the opposite.